tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post5281431826391268922..comments2023-06-12T00:43:52.680-07:00Comments on Minoan language blog: Gleaning Cretan place-names from Linear A tabletsAndras Zekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15850805830621290277noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-46493862502462647172011-05-09T12:12:21.420-07:002011-05-09T12:12:21.420-07:00Note the glyph to topography correspondence.
Expan...Note the glyph to topography correspondence.<br />Expand on it. Follow this through...<br />Don't focus on sounds, focus on the concept OF the glyph. Each word then becomes an abbreviated sentence, idea, noun or verb, etc. Not far different than our abbreviated text messages of today. Mind, if you had to write everything in stone you would take every shortcut possible, wouldn't you?<br /><br />I started with the "Rondels". It was clear to me these were "stamps" for goods that were sold or traded. The "leg" and "axe" are really "arm" and "hammer"...Baking Soda! Hence, I believe, this language actually HAS been translated, and is being withheld, contorted, unnecessarily confused by academic rhetoric. Crete was THE universal trade center at one time, and the language needed to be so simple anyone who arrived at port could understand it. <br /><br />I've been playing with this concept for a while,<br />and it works well - even with Greek.Cindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07366053085144195675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-49508037311235384662011-05-07T23:34:28.984-07:002011-05-07T23:34:28.984-07:00If DA-RE, JA-MI-DA-RE and SI-DA-RE are indeed topo...If DA-RE, JA-MI-DA-RE and SI-DA-RE are indeed toponyms, I think they're excellent candidates to examine as compound toponyms, like ZE-I-JA-KA-RA-NA and KE-I-JA-KA-RA-NA in Linear B.<br /><br />Tangentially, RE: ZE vs. KE in the above Linear B, some additional thoughts:<br />http://www.quora.com/Is-the-letter-%CE%BE-ksi-pronounced-as-ks-or-gz-in-Ancient-Greek-names?Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-82224251355254588492011-05-06T07:02:54.068-07:002011-05-06T07:02:54.068-07:00I see that A-DU-RE-ZA seems to be two words, A-DU ...I see that A-DU-RE-ZA seems to be two words, A-DU (isn't that used to mark the beginning of some of the tablet transactions? Something like "Bill Of Goods"?) and your proposed location name RE-ZA.robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12074939979211461276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-24436086372884183792011-05-01T22:35:00.685-07:002011-05-01T22:35:00.685-07:00Congratulations on a beautifully illustrated blog ...Congratulations on a beautifully illustrated blog site for LA.<br /> I believe your toponym net may be too large (first post), although most probably all are proper names. <br />On HT 13, one out of three ain’t bad (see Re-Za- and Te-Ki below)<br />So here goes:<br /> Te-Ki = Te-Ke is well known site (north of Knossos)<br />Re-Za is a known site south of Chania = (Minoan Ki-Do-Ni) that today grows oranges (?)<br />The above site is important because it has an A-Du (A-Du-Re-Za), similar to the A-Du word commonly referenced at Haghia Triada.<br />I am conflicted as to Adu = admin site or admin person? (Cyrus Gordon thought it was a morphed form of the WSemitic storm god Haddad/Baal, sorry Gordon, no cigar!)<br />Ki-Ni-Su (Semitic, probably pronounced “Ki-Ni-Shu”) is something you eat, not where you reside.<br />And you missed the most important (informative?) sequence of toponyms:<br />Ma-Ka-Re-Te (300 yards north of Knossos)<br />Ki-Re-Ta-Na = Gortyna <br />Se-Ki-Re-Ta (located in the Amari Valley?)<br />Pan-Ka-Ra-Te (is that a Benjamin word!)<br />Any takers on the root?kiretanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13460432498509501713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-8847021142642037552011-04-30T12:19:28.520-07:002011-04-30T12:19:28.520-07:00After browsing the Barrington Atlas (and its entri...After browsing the Barrington Atlas (and its entries), I found out that there <i>was</i> a place called <b>Malla</b>, known today as <a href="http://maps.google.hu/maps?q=35.081659,25.585427&num=1&t=h&sll=35.073279,25.586472&sspn=0.21495,0.308647&ie=UTF8&ll=35.061477,25.410004&spn=0.827325,1.757813&z=10" rel="nofollow">Males</a>, on south-eastern Crete, not far from Biannos. Not sure if they found any Minoan ruin near the village, though.Andras Zekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850805830621290277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-61998800795589718492011-04-28T14:30:12.043-07:002011-04-28T14:30:12.043-07:00Indeed we do have a Linear B place-name MA-RI, occ...Indeed we do have a Linear B place-name MA-RI, occurring at least 4 times on the Knossos tablets [according to G.R. Hart, 1965]. None of these list other places, yet the owners (of flocks) recur on other tablets, mentioning towns like RA-SU-TO, SU-RI-MO and MA-SO-MO. Unfortunately, the precise locations of these are not known - yet if RA-SU-TO has anything to do with the modern <i>Lasithi plateau</i>, they should lie south-east from Knossos. When we look at the 'meta-context' (i.e. the whole graph of co-occurring toponyms), we find places in the neighbourhood like WI-NA-TO (Inatos), U-TA-NO (Itanos?) and RU-KI-TO (Lyktos) - in full accordance with the hypothesis that MA-RI lies in mid-eastern Crete, probably beyond the Diktaian range.Andras Zekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850805830621290277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-28214592401102391042011-04-26T18:12:32.551-07:002011-04-26T18:12:32.551-07:00The choice of Matalon needs to be explained better...The choice of <i>Matalon</i> needs to be explained better. For me, I still think that "D" in the transcription is reflecting actual [ð]. Even if "Malia" fails to be ancient, recall <a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058%3Aentry%3D*mali%2Fs1" rel="nofollow">Μαλίς</a> which is confirmed to be old.<br /><br />And given a hypothetical <b>*Máθia</b> in Minoan, I would expect rather Linear B MA-RI where "R" is for Greek /l/ to approximate the foreign <i>edh</i>-sound. Is Linear B <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=VODLwfM2hmQC&pg=PA21&dq=%22it+is+tempting+for+Anatolian+geography+to+find+in+the+Knossos+tablets+geographic+names+such+as+Ma-ri%22+%22in+crete%22&hl=en&ei=uWu3TcnUKIjTgQfP-Kx3&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22it%20is%20tempting%20for%20Anatolian%20geography%20to%20find%20in%20the%20Knossos%20tablets%20geographic%20names%20such%20as%20Ma-ri%22%20%22in%20crete%22&f=false" rel="nofollow"><i>MA-RI</i></a> attested somewhere perhaps?Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-50656213466347941622011-04-24T05:40:38.098-07:002011-04-24T05:40:38.098-07:00MA-DI could have been Mallia as well. You were abs...MA-DI could have been <i>Mallia</i> as well. You were absolutely right to point out that many Minoan toponyms ending in <b>-i</b> or <b>-e</b> were regularized in Greek with the addition of a <b>-ja</b> ending. Thus we would expect a form *MA-DI-JA or *MA-TI-JA in Linear B, but it is not found. We should not forget, however, that <i>Mallia</i> is a modern place-name, the ancient name of the location is unknown. What little I can understand from the Linear A context of MA-DI, suggests that it was probably reasonably close to Phaistos. The term is very common on the Haghia Triada and Phaistos tablets, but not seen at Khania, Zakros, or at the rather fragmentary Knossos archive. <i>Matalon</i> ( = modern <i>Matala</i> - once the seaport of Phaistos) is a rather bad candidate based on phonology, but at least its name is likely preserved since the ancient era. That is all I can tell at the moment.Andras Zekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850805830621290277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-29130692422301239742011-04-23T15:29:02.994-07:002011-04-23T15:29:02.994-07:00I've been assuming MA-DI stands for *Máθia [ˈm...I've been assuming MA-DI stands for <b>*Máθia</b> [ˈmaðiə̯], hence <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malia_(municipality)" rel="nofollow">Malia</a> (Μάλια).Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-83712530526062028442011-04-22T23:31:59.664-07:002011-04-22T23:31:59.664-07:00Very interesting posts. I was reading about Linear...Very interesting posts. I was reading about Linear A recently and found your blog. Please keep up. Thanks.Ancient Scriptshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10505075928928392655noreply@blogger.com