tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post5014279860900039903..comments2023-06-12T00:43:52.680-07:00Comments on Minoan language blog: Goddess Eileithyia and her snakesAndras Zekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15850805830621290277noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-11660046092274802662011-01-24T08:44:38.265-08:002011-01-24T08:44:38.265-08:00A little about snakes: There are several varietie...A little about snakes: There are several varieties of collubrid which are ovoviviparous. The common garter snake, brown snake, ribbon snake, and water snake are a few examples. Of course that applies to the Americas. I don't know about any collubrids found in the Mediterranean. Is it possible there is a Mediterranean collubrid that gives birth to live young? I think it may be worth mentioning too that more than likely these ancient peoples were not snake experts and could very possibly confuse one type of snake with another, as even biologists still do on occasion today.Crystalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07630739016786283671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-17517097601047286052010-11-22T20:59:38.162-08:002010-11-22T20:59:38.162-08:00Another interesting note in the childbirth-snake c...Another interesting note in the childbirth-snake correlation:<br /><br />http://minoan.deaditerranean.com/2010/11/22/paleobotany-crops-and-flora-of-crete/<br /><br />Dittany of Crete, native to the mountains of Crete, cures snake bites and eases childbirth pain. I thought that was an interesting coincidence :>Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-84450424015769401912010-10-19T09:47:55.680-07:002010-10-19T09:47:55.680-07:00http://www.ancientscripts.com/images/linearb_logog...http://www.ancientscripts.com/images/linearb_logograms4.gif<br /><br />This in particular shows the male/female modifications, and is why I'm not so sure about the pants/skirts assertion. Visually, it doesn't make much sense to me.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-58073369419706083022010-10-18T22:35:59.539-07:002010-10-18T22:35:59.539-07:00Hm! What's the pants - AB3 relationship? Vis...Hm! What's the pants - AB3 relationship? Visually, I don't see it yet. And I maintain that <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Saffron_gatherers_detail_Thera_Santorini.gif" rel="nofollow">miss saffron gatherer</a> and some of the other fresco women may be wearing fancy pants since the position of the individual legs seem significantly distinct. I'm not so sure about the skirts-for-girls gender delineation in the Minoan era. The miniature fresco of the naval fleet shows plenty of men wearing long furry tunic like outfits and no pants at all. In fact, I'd love to read someone's paper of an in-depth look at the sex and fashion of the people in that particular fresco. It's fascinating.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-16725508034991303032010-10-09T13:24:41.104-07:002010-10-09T13:24:41.104-07:00It pleases me that you found this article interest...It pleases me that you found this article interesting. I will attempt to respond to this many comments in a single post.<br /><br />As for the snakes, well, a lot of different explanations can be correct. I like the 'shedding'-idea, too. If the cited Greek legend indeed has Minoan roots, then the snake-child connection will give us a really hard headache - any possible solutions are welcome. I never really thought of any phallic interpretations, but it might have some truth in it, as well as the rather obvious cave - birth canal association. As ancients often believed snakes to be subterranean animals, the connection to the underword or the caves is also relatively easy to accept. But the Middle-Eastern religious concepts that formed the basis of Judaism and later Christianity, are a bit far-flung for me.<br /><br />It is an entirely different matter why or how the Minoan scribes designated male and female animals in Linear A. I think the most traditional interpretation is still the simplest one: i.e. they added 'pants' to the image of male animals and 'skirts' to the female ones. If we think of how Cretan artists represented important men (e.g. the prince of lilies) and powerful women (e.g. the snake-goddess), one can realise the tendency to equip females with elaborate skirts and men with short loincloths. Probably this is the way Minoans traditionally dressed themselves (e.g. on festivities).Andras Zekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15850805830621290277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-77581335480901247852010-10-07T20:17:18.357-07:002010-10-07T20:17:18.357-07:00I just ran across something else which may be rele...I just ran across something else which may be relevant - a note I have referencing <i>The Mycenaean World</i> by John Chadwick from back in 1976. He notes A-RO-DO-RO-O from the Knossos Linear B tablets as a possible theonym.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-50561789508726542972010-10-07T02:58:47.517-07:002010-10-07T02:58:47.517-07:00On the association of snakes with birth - perhaps ...On the association of snakes with birth - perhaps it has something to do with the fact that they shed their skins and so are "re-born"?Hanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10929065286701743522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-18616033109256786092010-10-06T09:31:34.453-07:002010-10-06T09:31:34.453-07:00KH5. A-RA-U-DA.
How convinced are you that AB60 ...KH5. A-RA-U-DA.<br /><br />How convinced are you that AB60 has a phonetic value of RA?<br /><br />I'm not convinced, actually.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407840403433424940.post-67305505251698788492010-10-06T09:16:00.335-07:002010-10-06T09:16:00.335-07:00First, my fanciful response:
I love the snake ima...First, my fanciful response:<br /><br />I love the snake imagery of the Minoan goddesses, and I haven't given much thought to any relationship between snakes and childbirth in this context until I read this post. I'd like to sidestep into the Christian mythos for a moment, which has the possibility of many echoes and remnants of pre-Christian religions (for instance from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity" rel="nofollow">Buddhism</a>).<br /><br />The Greeks swore that Zeus was a god and were very upset with the Cretans who always maintained that Zeus was born just like any other baby and suffered adolescence like us mere mortals. It's a good example of how stories, as they do now so did they then, morph and change over time and retelling.<br /><br />The snake in Genesis tempted Eve. I'm going to leave out the details for a moment, if only because it's handy to make my fanciful hypothesis O:><br /><br />If we assume for a moment this snake-childbirth connection, what if the snake has a far more phallic representation, and the downfall was not Adam's, but Eve's? In succumbing to the temptation of the snake, did Eve become a slave to her reproductive system, and was thus given the curse-blessing to bear fruit? It could be an interesting and early way to explain why women have babies and men don't, along with the cave association wherein emerging from a cave (birth canal / what's blatantly surface-anatomy different about men and women (some men can have breasts and even lactate, especially during puberty, so I wonder if this difference may have been treated with suspicion)) makes for grand-scale symbolism. It has always interested me that the way to designate female in Linear B is to draw, essentially, a cave, and for men is the straight-line penis twice cross-hatched with testicles, although I haven't found other material yet on others interpreting the male signifier in this way. In our modern symbology, the triangular designation for women tends to reference skirts or dresses, but I've long been convinced that one of the saffron gatherers is wearing pants (one of these days, I'm going to have some of those custom made ;> ) and there are plenty of men in loin cloths so while there is indeed some art of women in dresses, I ultimately like the cave designation over the dress designation when discussing the male/female indicators in Linear B. (Sidenote: I haven't read any articles on this particular indicator yet, but hope to in the future. If I find anything interesting in relation to this discussion, I'll come back and add it here as a comment).<br /><br />In a goddess-centric religion, this fanciful reinterpretation of Eve vs. the Snake might make more sense, and might explain why Eleuthyia's priestesses were virgins. Perhaps part of the cult was pride in not being tempted by the snake, but also in caring for the women who succumbed to temptation and protecting them during childbirth.Kimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871562029141632326noreply@blogger.com